Eudemonia Bulletin Board Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Eudemonia Bulletin Board » Random Chatter » Non-Gaming Related Topics » Open Source?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Open Source?
itfactor36
New Member
Member # 277

Rate Member
Icon 5 posted      Profile for itfactor36  Email itfactor36  Send New Private Message | Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote
Any possibility of installing or making available to Eudemonia patrons, Free and Open Source Software (F/OSS) ?????
Examples of this are Linux OS, BSD OS, fully GPL'd games, ... etcetera.

Posts: 2 | From: Berkeley | Registered: May 2008 Report this post to a Moderator | Show Logged IP
judytuna
Moderator
Member # 256

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for judytuna  Email judytuna  Send New Private Message | Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote
Hey itfactor36!

The answer is no, because our computers are used primarily for gaming. Many games are available only on Windows. We use a Linux server behind-the-scenes, but there isn't any market for having Linux workstations. They would just sit around unused while everyone played Call of Duty on a Windows machine. If you're a hardcore free/opensource enthusiast and want to volunteer to show me exactly how to port games over and run them on other operating systems, that sounds like a fun side project. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense to offer non-Windows machines to our patrons. What would they use them for?

I do have an interest in indie games, even if they're not free and open source. I've got a friend who's really into Aquaria, an RPG that won a bunch of awards at IGF 2007. I've been thinking about getting it for Eudemonia, if there's an interest in indie RPGs.

CSProMod is a free third-party mod (and we have it on our computers!).

Fez is gonna be a cool game. I personally like Audiosurf, but it's impossible for us to carry it because of how Steam is set up (you'd have to own Audiosurf on your own personal Steam account to play it). And so on.

And hey, if you've got any suggestions of "fully GPL'd games" we should carry, talk to me! Post them here and why we should like them, and I'll see what I can do! =)

~judy

[ May 19, 2008, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: judytuna ]

Posts: 374 | From: Dragonmaw | Registered: Oct 2007 Report this post to a Moderator | Show Logged IP
itfactor36
New Member
Member # 277

Rate Member
Icon 3 posted      Profile for itfactor36  Email itfactor36  Send New Private Message | Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote
Thanks for the candid reply [Smile]

You wrote
quote:
The answer is no, because our computers are used primarily for gaming. Many games are available only on Windows.
There are also increasingly more and more advanced-type games and users for both Windows workstations AND Linux workstations [Cool]
Less true for *BSD though [Hrmph]
Here are some list-sites of some of such games :
- Freshmeat.net's uber Games/Entertainment list found at http://freshmeat.net/browse/80/
- 'LinuxGames - Embrace your inner penguin' found at http://www.linuxgames.com/
- 'Libregamewiki List of games' found at
http://libregamewiki.org/List_of_games
- 'Free Gamer open source games' found at http://freegamer.blogspot.com/
- 'The Open Source Gamer' at http://fossgamer.110mb.com/index.html
- 'The Linux Game Tome' found at http://www.happypenguin.org/

Wow, huh?? Betcha didnt know how many Open Source games are listed and available!!!

You wrote
quote:
We use a Linux server behind-the-scenes, but there isn't any market for having Linux workstations.
Sure seems to make the most sense. Eudemonia is predominantly a games outlet with the games people do play there -- hmmm, I do sound like a Psychologist here, don't I ? [Big Grin]
OTOH, more and more persons are becoming involved with F/OSS, which includes Linux and other software such as the above games.
Something of a big trend that could certainly be considered for marketing purposes -- marketed for gamers of high-school-age and of Cal-Berkeley-age onwards.

You wrote
quote:
They would just sit around unused while everyone played Call of Duty on a Windows machine. If you're a hardcore free/opensource enthusiast
and want to volunteer to show me exactly how to port games over and run them on other operating systems, that sounds like a fun side project.

This generates a very optimistic possibilty.
A fascinating F/OSS development for "porting" games made for Win**** onto Linux workstations is the wine project ------ w.i.n.e. in this
case is a cutesy recursive acronym for Wine Is Not an Emulator.
wine's main website is at http://www.winehq.org/
I AM a hardcore free/opensource enthusiast and would just LOVE to show you and other Eudemonia folks how to run some of these key games using wine on Linux!!
How about starting with using Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare on Linux with Wine as described at
http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2008/01/call-of-duty-4-modern-warfare-on-linux.html ?? When could I come over for this ??

You wrote
quote:
Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense to offer non-Windows machines to our patrons. What would they use them for?

Yes, gaming is for sure your KEY business to bring in and keep your patrons.
AAMOF on this, a number of bloggers continue to clearly express their concerns for why there are less games for Linux machines than there are for
Windows ones.
GBGames nicely addresses this in his blogpost 'Why Aren't There More Linux-Using Gamers?' found at
http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/ http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/

OTOH, there are certainly these three compelling reasons to offer non-Windows workstations for Eudemonia's expert game-playing patrons :
1. Cost.
Almost all the entire software from the Operating System up to the games themselves are free or nearly so. The Linux OS -- actually Linux
distributions containing the latest GNU/Linux OS 2.6.x kernels -- are all really essentially free or IMMENSELY low cost. No big upfront license cost$$$$$$$ or haggling for any special multi-seat discounts as you might be doing now for Microsoft Windows Vistas OS and beyond at Eudemonia [Wink]

2. Availability.
Eudemonia can obtain and use F/OSS such as Linux and a wide variety of Open Source games in usable condition NOW, and without having to spend time travelling to local computer stores or paying high fees for ordering and WAITING+WAITING+WAITING for the software to eventually arrive and be successfully installed for you & Eudemonia's patrons.
The terms of the GPL in F/OSS such as Linux and Open Sourced games allow you to download the installable software -- in executable binary format -- from mirror sites Worldwide which are almost always available.

3. Cutting-Edge / Uber-Cool Factor.
Some of the hottest innovation and technology advancements are coming through F/OSS-development efforts instead of through Microsoft's. It is considered hyper-cool to be an Open Source geek or even a Linux-aware "commoner". Witness all the stories around the World -- e.g., in East Asian countries, Australia, England... etc.-- of shops
similar to Eudemonia's, now using Linux for performance and efficiency reasons. Witness all the desktop use of Ubuntu plus that of the other
cool Linux distros listed at the DistroWatch.com site. The fact alone of publicising Linux boxes for high-end game-playing could sure attract more patrons to Eudemonia!

Hey -- as Eudemonia's staff&management will certainly inquire -- What about getting effective low-cost or free support for all this F/OSS stuff?
With the likes of avid F/OSS supporters such as a number of ultra-cool-factor CS students around the campus and myself, Eudemonia'd be hard-put NOT to find voluntary support for installing and running tried-and-true and cutting-edge GPL'd games.
It's now almost Summertime, so some extra time is available for high-school and inter-class Cal students to come around and help out.
Plenty of online support forums to find specific F/OSS help with as well

You wrote
quote:

I do have an interest in indie games, even if they're not free and open source. I've got a friend who's really into Aquaria, an RPG that
won a bunch of awards at IGF 2007. I've been thinking about getting it for Eudemonia, if there's an interest in indie RPGs.

Admittedly, a blogger named Charlie addresses why there are currently many more indie games which are not free or open source than F/OSS. He/She writes an enlightening Free-Gamer blogpost on this, 'Debunking reasons not to open source indie freeware games' found at http://freegamer.blogspot.com/2007/06/debunking-reasons-not-to-open-source.html
OTOH, please consider these points:
- There is a list of indie games from last year that you&others may wish to check out, 'Independent Gaming: Freeware Indie Games for
Linux' found at http://indygamer.blogspot.com/2007/07/freeware-indie-games-for-linux.html
- Someone was indeed able to run Aquaria through wine in Kubuntu Linux, as can be seen in this YouTube video 'Aquaria in Wine - recorded using glc' found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJph0HceV0o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJph0HceV0o
- Freshmeat.net has a categorical list of RPGs found at http://freshmeat.net/browse/84/ .

You wrote
quote:
CSProMod is a free third-party mod (and we have it on our computers!).

Fez is gonna be a cool game. I personally like Audiosurf, but it's impossible for us to carry it because of how Steam is set up (you'd have to own Audiosurf on your own personal Steam account to play it).
And so on.

The WineReleasePlan found at http://wiki.winehq.org/WineReleasePlan announcing wine release candidate 1.0.0-rc3 for this week and further wine release candidates coming up within the next month on up.
The mods and games you are feasibly planning and considering for Eudemonia could thus conceivably be successfully run in wine on Linux workstations sooner than you might think.

You wrote
quote:
And hey, if you've got any suggestions of "fully GPL'd games" we should carry, talk to me! Post them here and why we should like them,
and I'll see what I can do! =)

Guess this'll be looked into further.

FWIW, there are several good ways to transition towards offering non-Windows workstations for serious patron gaming.
A. Try using as much as possible, free/low-cost GPL'd games which are available for both Linux/*BSD as well as your current Win****. This
way there would be minimal learning curve problems __within the games themselves__ in transitioning from Win**** to Linux/*BSD.
B. Use a freely available liveCD or liveDVD on test workstations to run advanced native-Linux games -- or native *BSD games -- or else Win**** -made games via wine.
Popular and specific Linux liveCDs/liveDVDs are
- PCLinuxOS described at http://www.pclinuxos.com/
- Linux Mint described at http://linuxmint.com/ http://linuxmint.com/
- Puppy Linux described at http://www.puppylinux.com/
- Sabayon Linux described at http://www.sabayonlinux.org/
- Dream Linux described at http://www.dreamlinux.com.br/
- SimplyMEPIS described at http://www.mepis.org/
- Knoppix described at http://www.knoppix.com/ http://www.knoppix.com/
- Slax described at http://www.slax.org/
To be fair, there are also the various Ubuntu-flavor liveCDs via Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, Fluxbuntu.......etceterubuntu)
The only up-to-date *BSD liveCD I am aware of is FreeSBIE described at http://www.freesbie.org/

The greatest benefit to using a liveCD/liveDVD with such a test system is that this runs a complete OS with applications and everything, all from the bootable CD and from RAM. There is very little need of a liveCD/liveDVD to interfere with the Win**** OS and the Windows games -- except maybe via wine? -- already installed on these workstations' hard drives. Once these orkstations are rebooted using the liveCD/liveDVD, then the media is ejected and Win**** is restarted.

C. Eventually after going the liveCD/liveDVD route, Eudemonia would want to actually go ahead and install native Linux or *BSD in a dual-boot fashion on these test workstations for running GPL'd games. There are many installable Linux and several *BSD distros listed and ranked on the DistroWatch site found at http://distrowatch.com
99percent++ of these distros very easily accommodate dual-booting Linux or *BSD with all Windows OS versions except for possibly the current Windows Vista OS.
Dual-boot capability allows for greater performance than for liveCD/liveDVD and grants the other benefits from wine/FOSS games on Eudemonia test workstations, +plus+ it makes safely certain that Win**** OS and games are kept available whenever needed. Major problems with installing and using F/OSS software&games w/ and w/o wine should be caught here. Test dual-boot systems also are great for more easily upgrading OS's and fixing when required.

D. Once the dual-boot Test workstations at Eudemonia are running most or all of those GPL'd/wine'd games great, then you'd roll these workstations out to your patrons. They'd then be called "Production" workstations. The staff and volunteers would want to help Eudemonia patrons with any commonly-occurring problems that they might be having with F/OSS games on Production workstations -- BTW, seems that this is exactly the same with Windows games! -- should they not adjust that well. One nice thing about the F/OSS developer community is that if F/OSS game developers in that upper-hierarchy echelon get wind of end-user discussion/problems regarding their native-Linux games 00 or games under a wine rc, they then tend to conscientiously get around to responding to such discussion/problems sooner than for Windows-based games.

Hope that these suggestions can help Eudemonia & patrons, and again, let me know when this hardcore free/opensource enthusiast can come over to help out.

Posts: 2 | From: Berkeley | Registered: May 2008 Report this post to a Moderator | Show Logged IP
judytuna
Moderator
Member # 256

Rate Member
Icon 10 posted      Profile for judytuna  Email judytuna  Send New Private Message | Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote
I consider myself fully pwned to the next dimension. Hahaha. Sure, come in sometime! I'm here every weekday from opening until... evening... so chances are if you just drop by I'll be around. My name is Judy. Or post again if you live far away and it needs more coordination.

(The thing is, whatever you'd be able to teach me would pretty much only be for amusement, cuz it still isn't really that feasible to have non-windows machine on our floor, even in dual-boot. But it would be fun in our free time. Haha.)

Posts: 374 | From: Dragonmaw | Registered: Oct 2007 Report this post to a Moderator | Show Logged IP
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Eudemonia Homepage

© 2003-2007 Eudemonia Poliae, Inc.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2